The “I Like to Churn” Advisor

Ugh, I'm so frustrated. I thought we were doing a good thing for ourselves, but now I think we are trapped. Full backstory: A friend recommended their "financial advisor" to us. We thought, "Great! We've been meaning to meet with someone... we have a kid on the way, and my husband isn't putting away anything toward retirement since starting his new job in August."

So, we set up a phone meeting with this friend from Northwestern Mutual. She gives us a call, and we end up speaking with her for over an hour. She asks us lots of questions—what we are looking for (we tell her we want to set up retirement stuff for my husband and explore maybe putting some of our $17k in savings into CDs or mutual funds). She asks us questions about when we see ourselves retiring, how "aggressive" we are, etc. All good stuff. We hang up and agree to talk again in a week when she will give us a plan.

Cut to a week later, we're having another phone meeting, and she emails me THE PLAN. It's many, many pages, basically explaining what we have vs. what we will need if we want to retire. But she mostly just talks about how we need more life insurance. "Sure," we think. Maybe we do need more life insurance. She explains that my husband needs at least $1 million in life insurance and I need $500k (we both already have $150k policies through work). This is news to us, but we hear her out. She also spends a ton of time explaining how we need to have disability insurance. Again, we think, "Maybe we do." So we spend the greater part of an hour and a half talking about life insurance and long-term disability insurance. She briefly mentions we should be maxing out my Roth IRA and could perhaps start one for my husband.

We hang up with plans to talk again in a week and sign some paperwork. Over the next week, my husband and I really realize that we don't want disability insurance (she quoted us paying like $170/month), and we didn't feel we needed more life insurance at this time (she had us paying $340/month in permanent and $125/month in term). But we were okay maxing out my Roth at $450/month. We also wanted to explore stocks/bonds/CDs/mutual funds more (like we initially told her). So, I sent this all to her in an email before our next meeting. She responded with, "OK, great! Sounds good... talk soon."

Cut to another phone meeting, where she would talk with us about our updated PLAN. She emails us the NEW PLAN while we're on the phone. LITERALLY NOTHING IS CHANGED. She proceeds to spend the next hour convincing us why we need life insurance and disability insurance. My husband and I are both pushovers and listen to the whole spiel again. Every time we bring up a reason why we don't feel like we need it, she tells us how wrong we are. I mean, she's the professional, we thought. I still expressed my disinterest in disability insurance but wasn't completely closing the door on life insurance. She kept guilt-tripping me about "what will your kids have if one of you dies!"

By the end of the conversation, I hadn't agreed to anything except to roll over my Roth to Northwestern. She had me give her my bank routing info to get "the paperwork started." She also said she was going to be sending me a bunch of stuff to sign in the next few weeks, but it was just to apply for things... nothing was set in stone. We could just see what the insurance company was going to quote us, and we still weren't committed to anything. "Ugh, fine," I thought. She said a small amount might be taken out of my checking, but it was just to make sure "the charges are able to go through when we start moving more money to my Roth."

So a week or two goes by, and I see a ~$30 charge go through for "disability insurance"—WHICH I TOLD HER I DIDN'T WANT! And I just realized... this doesn't feel good. It doesn't seem right. She's not listening to what we want. She still hasn't addressed our interest in CDs/mutual funds/stocks, which we initially came to her for. I spent the weekend doing my due diligence—spending a few hours on r/personalfinance, NerdWallet, just googling in general about what my husband and I should really be doing. I decided to call the whole thing off with Northwestern.

It's been a nightmare trying to cut off ties with her. I was kind and courteous through the first couple of emails and subsequent texts: "We really appreciate your time but have decided to pull out. Again, thank you." She is being evasive and manipulative, telling us we are completely wrong and still need to work with her. At this point, I have just ignored any further communication. It has just been a really bad experience.

But THE REAL REASON I still feel like I can't completely ignore her is that I asked her several times when I should expect to see a refund for the disability insurance THAT I DID NOT WANT AND DID NOT AGREE TO. She just dances around the question. I'm also worried because I've gotten a "bill" (no charges yet) in the mail for the $340/month in permanent, $125/month in term, and $170 in short-term disability.

Is there anything I can do to make sure I don't get charged for this? If I communicate with her any further, she just tries to talk to us about why we need to invest with her, etc.

WHAT DO WE DO? She is being shady AF.

I’ve had initial chats with two, and met two at parties. No horror stories, but all four left me certain that I wouldn’t trust them with a penny of my money. The two I met socially gave me the strong impression they had no idea what they were doing and just parroted dubious soundbites like “you’ll never lose money in property” or “you can’t go wrong with bonds”.

One had been in agriculture before getting a job at his father-in-law’s advisory firm.

I tried to chat to them about more complex post-recession low-interest rate stuff and they kinda changed the subject and just went back to soundbites. The two I actually spoke to about getting advice, one didn’t know how to deal with crypto and promptly ghosted me, the other also appeared to lose interest once it was clear I wasn’t just gonna buy life insurance and commission products. All four did the 1980s sales-y bullshit like using my first name constantly (one of them calling me by the wrong name over and over).

So (while I know every industry has its bad apples), my own personal experience has been that 4 out of 4 had strong scammy used car salesman / estate agent vibes. So basically, they’re the last people I’d hand over money to.I manage my ~£0.5m portfolio myself.

And no, we’re not talking about churning butter. I was talking with another potential client who was considering switching advisors and although they lived in a small town in the Midwest, they had somehow started doing business with an advisor out of New York. They had been with this person for several years and had a hunch that things weren’t all what they seemed.

They thought perhaps the advisor was selling funds and buying other funds just for the sake of earning a commission, and since I was the guy they were considering hiring, they were interested in me taking a look. After reviewing their account statements and the trade confirmations, it was quickly and easily obvious that was what was being done.

Sure enough, the advisor was selling A-Shares; another type of mutual fund, and turning right around and buying other B-Shares, sometimes it was the exact same fund. It made no sense other than the fact that the advisor made a commission on each of those trades.

Lesson Learned: If you are using an advisor on a commission-based relationship, be on the lookout for an influx of unusual trade confirmations. If you see a lot of activity, it might be worth inquiring about.